So they making force books for every faction starting from APAC following with Dravani. I’m getting every faction so I guess it will cost me but it’s better than no releases at all. And it explains why there was no new profiles in outbreak.

Start releasing something Aberrant.

I'm not sure how I feel about faction-specific books, honestly. I'll keep an open mind, but I prefer books with something for everyone.

As I collect and play all the factions, I too like the combined approach rather than the individual force books. Rez is a small scale skirmish game with warbands rather than armies.

If I was investing several hundred dollars into a single faction and had dozens of different unit types to choose from, than a codex 'er forcebook would be more appropriate. I don't see it being worth it for Rez, besides quite a few models can work for any faction and many of the weapons are common amongst all factions as well, so a forcebook would have lots of redundant stuff for a person collecting more than one faction.

On the other hand it would provide more fluff dedicated to each faction. But then again, even if I played one faction I'd be interested in reading all the Rez fluff regardless of which faction it was dedicated to.

I find faction books annoying and a turn off, esp. as a player who likes playing all factions, and also since those very same faction books you just layed out all that cash for get revised and redone every 3 yrs so you have to buy them all over again.

What happened to the days of books like Warhammer Armies - which had it all.

Yeah, I get having a company is about making a profit - but that's what the minis are for, no?

I'd much rather see cool world books, resource books, campaign stuff, etc. that introduce new creatures, factions, or even some long awaited vehicle rules...

D

I must admit, I much prefer all in one books rather than individual force books.

LBH

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with a codex type book per faction I would think, since it potentially gives each faction the page space it needs to showcase more than just the basic rules and models (I love seeing variants and customization jobs, more variant missions, maybe a sneak peak or two into future additions, and maybe some faction specific upgrades for campaign or tournament play) but we can agree that we don't want the GW syndrome where Codex books that change or modify rules that apply to the other factions are applied from the most recent Codex entry.

Course, we all know Simon doesn't play that way so I'm sure we have nothing to worry about.

-Ryoga

PLEASE don't do faction books. All-in-ones cause SIMULTANEOUS power creep. Everyone wants their new stuff to be great, but when one faction gets a bump and I have to wait for months (or more) for mine...well that is just no fun.

I'm not sure. I agree with both schools of thought, but individualizing it into factions makes it much simpler to keep creating SOME kind of progress, which is nice. The game changes constatly over time rather than one HUGE release where everyone is completely mind-blown by all the changes. Factionizing the book would help to give the game (as a whole) life without giving it a heart attack. Sorry for any bad analogies shoved in there...

it's interesting to see how different opinions can be on one and the same subject Personally I think that the approach Aberrant Games is taking is great.

First they got people started with all the factions in one book. All you needed was that one book and you knew exactly what what to expect.

Now, with the game growing the faction books give them the opportunity to add a whole new dimension to existing factions and add one new faction after the other. I think that this is great for us as players as we DO get those "dozens of new units" (as mentioned by CmdrKiley) even for existing factions as those will be re-visited (APAC for a starter as I understand).

On top of that I think that faction books offer a perfect opportunity to add so much more depth to each faction, with specific scenarios, variations and special rules etc. Just imagine special rules for the "bad guy marshal" from outbreak.

If you are concerned about the "power boost" when one faction gets their new book, I must say I'm not concerned at all. Knowing SImon & crew I beleive that things will stay just as balanced as they currently are. You will only have more options. And since all factions are already fully playable, I don't think that waiting for the faction book of your personal favourite will be too harsh ... or maybe it will be but hey so much the better

Nedorus

If you are concerned about the "power boost" when one faction gets their new book, I must say I'm not concerned at all. Knowing SImon & crew I beleive that things will stay just as balanced as they currently are. You will only have more options. And since all factions are already fully playable, I don't think that waiting for the faction book of your personal favourite will be too harsh ... or maybe it will be but hey so much the better

Nedorus

Some things regarding this, I see the force books as the accepted business model. From the companys perspective it works providing an income stream rather than clumps for large releases. Plus side you always have something generating interest. The business side of the company loves these things.

Game balance is always skewed in this environment someone is always getting their bump while others are waiting. While things will be balanced they only fully balance after every one gets their force book. Face it you want your faction to go last in the rotation because they will get the biggest boost. This is un avoidable for two reasons, the company needs buzz about the new product, and being last means you will need the most help.

With two games couldn't we alternate full world books between the two games? I bow to the necessity of this for the game to grow the question is how? I love the game and will support it no matter the path taken.

Power creep is not automatic with the faction book model. It's an artificial addition some companies use to promote product and push players to buy more stuff.

If the faction books contain stuff that expanded the scale of the game (ex: tanks), they could cause problems because the new scale of stuff would either have to balance well against existing forces, or be better served being introduced in an all around force book. If they added tanks, they'd need to add anti-tank capability for all the factions. If they just added things like shotgun armed CSO teams, or more characters, there isn't an issue.

There are plenty of options that could be introduced in a faction book that would not unbalance the game. Give more options to that faction, yes, but not unbalance the game. So long as Simon and Co keep the playtest working, the faction books can be a boon instead of a bust.

While I might prefer all around books, it's more because I also play all the factions, so having something for everyone is not a big deal.

For players that don't play all the factions, individual books are a much better deal, because they aren't paying for material they will never use.

I actually prefer having everything in one book. I may never use some factions, but I do like the fact that I can review what my opponent has. I like what Privateer Press has done. For each expansion, every faction gets something cool, and the game does not seem unbalanced at all. If you don't want fluff, then you can always just buy the faction deck.

As some people here, I started as a GW gamer. The company came out with cool models, but what really sucked was that the newest codex/army book was always the most powerful.

On the positive side, I'm glad that there will be new products coming out. I'm going to buy the Pistol Fencer, because priests with guns are just too cool (ah, the days of Trigun). I'm definitely going to get the Ronin Brawler for my Ronin force. Can't wait to see what's new for the APAC. Warlands seems really cool too.

I can see both sides on this one. One of the downsides seems to be what Gimp had mentioned as Simon does say that the APAC will be getting bikes. This seems like it could create something of an imbalance as I imagine that a unit of Enforcers mounted on bikes would be able to move a lot faster than other units. Then again, they would also have some serious limitations. How would you take a unit mounted on bikes into an office building? Makes me wonder if they are going to take the scope of the game in a different direction, away from small skirmishes and toward larger battles.

Have to wait and see I guess.

It is also possible to keep things balanced by bringing out new models before the force book for those models is out. It is what has been happening in the past anyways (see last DD for details). That way you can even introduce new troop types (like bikes?) and give all factions a bit of the new stuff and publish the full story later when the faction book comes out. I don't know if this is what's going to happen, but with all the rules for a model available on its card this could be a way to do it.

Also there is always Data Dump to go with. PP goes that way by bragging about their new models (including rules and everything) in their mag, then later releasing the model and even later the new book. I think it works really well there, so shouldn't it with Aberrant Games I ask... I think it will.

Nedorus


P.S.: here is a perfect example of why I like this community so well: Here we have a hot debate but it's always civil ... me likes me likes

It seems to me that people's perception that "the new book is the most powerful" is incorrect. It just takes people time to readjust their forces to face something they aren't used to facing, and it takes time to learn all the intricacies of the new book's dynamics. So while it may always SEEM like the newest book has the edge, all it should take is some effort to familiarize yourself with that faction to cure that. Granted, that usually means buying another faction book, but the company needs to make business somehow right?

My distaste of faction books comes from frustration with GW's marketing and game design. Meanwhile, Privateer Press has illuminated me to how all-in-one (AIO)books can be a real boon to players. Thankfully, Aberrant is not GW (I trust Aberrant's design team much more); however, I still feel apprehensive about their decision to do faction books.

In the AIO world, each group gets it new stuff at once; any power creep or readjustment that occurs happens is a space of mutual newness and excitement. The last new book release becomes a time to plan purchases (good for the company) not simply for questioning how to use what I already have in different ways. Everyone who plays is excited to see how their new stuff stacks up...which means they play; if it is in public it may drum up new business.

Nearly everyone who plays the game will buy an AIO book; there will be many people who buy faction books who do not play the faction, but if the cost of the book is moderately high, many will not.

AIO book releases promote equally spread out figure releases, so if you don't play faction X you won't have any new figures to purchase for the next 4 months. In Warmachine and Hordes, I buy virually all releases for 2 factions (Cryx and Trollbloods) and a very limited amount (well less than half) for two others (Circle and Mercs)...PP gets money from me nearly EVERY month because they are always coming out with something new FOR ME in spite of the fact that I don't play 1/2 of their factions. Even back when I only played one WM faction, PP still had something for me every other month. If my experiences are in any way common, then this may explain why PP has grown so quickly...they get an ongoing income stream from EACH player.

APAC is first, I'll buy this book. I got $100 worth of APAC for $20...so I've got a force to build off of. I'll probably buy the other faction books (if they are cheap), but after APAC, I may not buy much in the way of figures until the book comes out for Vatacina. How many months will Aberrant go without receiving any money from me??? Or you? How many factions will get books before my favorite gets some love? AIO books are the way to go!!!

Based on my experience with GW, the newest force is always the most powerful, and wins the most games. It comes to the point where it's not even fun. Furthermore, you never know when GW is going to completely eliminate a faction too (i.e. squats never existed after 2 ed.)



I totally agree with this statement.



I play Cygnar, and I am also starting up a Khador faction. I buy mercs to substitute/reinforce certain elements of my battlegroup. It's nice to have something new to come out for me with each release. Furthermore, I know that with each release, the cool stuff I get will balance out with the cool stuff someone else gets. Probably because they are developing the products at the same time.

Rez is pretty much dying in my town (2 players only including me), and in the surrounding cities (and one of the biggest cities in Canada). The big reason is lack of visibility. By going towards faction books, people will completely forget about this game. I've tried the demo idea (not adjucator, but just want to promote the game), but it has gone nowhere due to the lack of visibility (i.e. nothing in stores).

I really do like Rez, and will check out Warlands. I'll buy the APAC and Ronin books, and since my friend plays CSO and Dravani, the only book we would need is the Vaticina (unless other factions come out such as the paneer). Only time will tell what will happen.

Fastest cure for visibility issues is to play the game in your local store. If every time you and your friend want to play a game you make a point to head down to the local shop you'll meet way more people than if you stay at home to play.

I don't really care about faction books vs. non-faction books personally. Seems both have merit.

I agree with Pyreos' assessment on power creep though. It's more of an adjustment time than an actual imbalancing in my mind. I play two of the oldest armies in WH (Skaven and Lizardmen) and do just fine in my games against armies both new and old...

Ok, no more GW bashing... let's talk Faction Books for Rez for a moment. First off, your opinions are welcome here but let's please remain positive until we actually see something in person. Secondly... A Dark Tomorrow is in print and it contains "something for everyone" already... so I'm not really sure what the big beef is with consolidating faction-specific details from the 2 current books and 4 Data Dumps (plus more to come) into one place.

I posted something similar in another thread, but parts are equally applicable to the faction books:

These books are not due out for a while. I know that's a long time to go without seeing/hearing much about it, but applying what you've seen in other games to this is not prudent. Totally different design team, totally different company, totally different game. Rez already balances a large number of wildly varying abilities and figure types very well. A stomper is more or less the equivalent of a tank. It's perfectly capable of being taken down by a yurrei in h2h with luck. Bikes sure might be fast, but as noted, they are not feasible for interior fights, they are difficult to maneuver at high speeds and there is always the hold order. The way the system works, anything is killable and anything is able to be countered. Producing something that changes this would require a vast system overhaul to balance - Simon isn't stupid.

More than that, Rez is a game about options, style and story. It's not focused on building forces that are carbon copies of one another with a few minor differences. Other games may focus on releasing the same type of miniature (artillery, mages, cavalry, etc) for each faction all at once because within their rule set, these new items offer a massive advantage that require certain things to counter them. Without them, an army is at a distinct disadvantage. New releases for Rez are about providing new and interesting options to present an engaging game. For Rez (due to the game system, among other things), although forces without a faction book may not have new toys, that does not mean that their old toys are useless without the new toys (not to mention the fact that Aberrant has plenty of figs which aren't even in a book; no reason why each book couldn't be accompanied by a release or two for each other faction...)

Again - barring a vast miscalculation on my part, Simon isn't stupid. It's no secret that Aberrant is a small company. Releasing something that broke the game without any sort of a counter to be seen for months for a small game would be foolish.

Basically, hesitation, caution and concern are good things; they indicate that you care about the game. However, don't let them shade your initial opinion on a product with practically nothing final information yet. Wait until the APAC book comes out - until then, kill Dravani.

I also think that barring some truly bad game design or a large loophole, it's fairly hard to make a gamebreaking unit in Rezolution.

That said right now I would say the only legitimate complaint should be why isn't Vatacina no getting a book first (as they have the fewest options right now)?

Course I love my APAC so alls well really.

Hey, why isn't Vatacina getting their book first?


No really though, will only a few books be released initially, or will all the existing rules and stats be organized and released for each faction at once?

As for power creep, it might be less of an issue due to the design of Rez. In fact, they could realistically release a single faction book but have miniature for more than one faction also come out because all of the rules for the units are on the cards. You might not have the fluff about a unit but you would have something to get onto the table and play with right away.

Don't know if they plan to do this but I thought it deserved a mention.

The Vatacina and their stats have been introduced in Outbreak. As a faction, they did not have game stats or models prior to that release. As Rezolution continus to grow, all the factions will continue to grow in strength, fluff, and numbers (of minis available).

The faction books will not replace A Dark Tomorrow, Outbreak, the FAQ, Data Dumps, or Data Cards. The faction books are about consolidating all that I just typed into one convenient location both for single-faction player types and to bring everything up to date. For example, the CSO artwork in A Dark Tomorrow is "wrong" because the models went thru a production change. Over time, the CSO Starters received new sculpts and a new box sleave... now it's time to get the other artwork replaced as well.

Hi Everyone,

Well it's ealy monday morning after a very tiring but excellent GenCon. The con went well, we sold out of the 2 new releases which was excellent, we had a 7 hour big bash on saturday night with 8 people which was hillarious. and oh so much fun (although the 4:00 am finish was a bit rough. )

As far as the faction books go we will not be stopping releasing new figures for the other factions, our release schedules will still be full of all faction goodness. The reason for APAC being first is purely to give them some loving as we haven't released anything new for a while. The vatacina will continue to grow, we have the Pistil Fencer now and the Confessor later.

The books will not replace the existing figures but will consolidate all the releases into one place. Think about the CSO, they have had releases with the Trundler which have not been in any book or data dump yet. This is the reason for the faction books, to consolidate and add more fun to each faction.

As for power creep, why would we do that to the game we love. We all play rez and although, tempting as it may seem to put something mega powerful into our favorite faction we don't do it.

Right now I'm off to my flight home and a well earned rest (well back to getting DD5 finished.

Cheers

Tony

Any chance of Faction Dice

Viva La Rezolution!

So how much of the faction books will be 'new' and how much of it just reprints of what we have from the 2 big AIO books and the Data Dumps?

Until now I'd been assuming the faction books would be all new material.

LBH

Faction books will be a consolidation of material already in print (including errata/FAQ material) and some new stuff.

As to Faction Dice... I'm working on it but apparently they're very expensive to manufacture for places like GF9.

Gotta say: kudos to Aberrant on both of the new Rezolution models displayed at GenCon. Absolutely stunning on both counts!

Consolidation of existing material is good, so long as there's plenty new stuff too.

But if enough of the faction books are going to be consolidation, wouldn't it make more sense to make an AIO book with the DD stuff appearing in print for the first time and add the new stuff. Means those of us that have the other books won't get duplication.

LBH

To be honest there’s not a lot to consolidate.

True. From a certain point of view.

Hi Lastbesthope.

That is difficult to say. The faction books are in the very early stages of development as as yet I have not worked through all the details. We have a long list of new stuff we want to include in these books and there will be a lot more added to that. These books will predominantly be new stuff but will contain all the previously published details for completeness. We will be getting lots of new artwork, I'll be writing a lot more fiction and background information for all the factions to give new and existing players something to be excited about.

Hope this answers some of your questions.

Cheers

Tony

Hi Duck21,

It's actually surprising, I know I was when I looked, how much has been released and will be released that has not been put in print at all. It is this we are trying to address along with adding a lot of new stuff.

Cheers

Tony

All,

One further thing to add is that we are looking at producing pdf versions of the books to be released after the main book releases. This was suggested as an alternative especially for people that like to have all the factions especially as the electronic version will be cheaper than the print version therefore keeping the cost down for those people if print copies are acceptable.

Cheers

Tony

P

Cheaper is OK but I'd rather have a hardcover version ... and I'm quite willing to pay the extra ... any chances there?


Nedorus

Have you talked to Chessex about custom dice? I've had them made for my store and they were dirt cheap, only about 50 cents a die and I only had 200 made. Kind of funny, they are cheaper than I can get non-custom dice wholesale... Granted I don't normally buy 200 of one type of die.

Chessex already makes a "circuit board" die but they only sell is direct for some reason. Kind of irritates me!

I'll keep this idea bookmarked as well. Trust me, I've been pushing for faction dice for Rez for two con seasons now. When I mentioned GF9 was "expensive" - I was referring to my own personal need-fulfillment. It sounds to me that there is actually an interest in this from the Rez community so I will pursue it further with more diligence.

Ah, from one extreme to the other. I'll bookmark this idea as well for the future.

It does Tony, thanks for all the info, we do appreciate the hard work.

LBH

I am interested in faction dice... just my .02

I, as well, would go for some faction dice. And the hardcover versions. Perhaps this should be polled?

Done!
http://rezolutiondt.invisionzone.com/index...?showtopic=2551

Faction dice don't do much for me but I'd be first in line to buy a ballcap with the CSO logo on it like the ones you see for the FBI, ATF, and such. Even a pin with the CSO faction symbol or something like that I could throw on my hat at cons and such would be cool.

Great idea. One I've been bouncing around now for a while. I have a way to make this happen... but it'll take a little time.

CSO apparel would be excellent.

LBH

I'd love to see a REZOLUTION t-shirt without anything on the back. I'm all for other apparel too.

Dressing Up Costumes!

Viva La Rezolution!

Personally I love Faction books, splat books, or whatever you prefer to call them. They are great when I'm just starting a game because I'm one of those guys who plays one faction at a time, currently CSO. As I get into the game the other books are a bonus. If I'm low on gaming funds but get in the mood to buy something I can shoot by one of the local stores and get a cheap fix. When Bryan and Chris pulled me into wargaming Starship Troopers was the game of choice so I went with the Skinnies but I still ended up with the faction books for the bugs and troopers. I think I've played maybe 3 total games of AT-43 and yet I have the books for the Therans, Karmans and UNA. In both cases the books opened up it's respective faction from the fairly limited information giving in the games core rule book. They offered several new units, new options for existing units, new abilities, and more in depth background fluff.

So on one hand Rez Faction Books are an easy sell to me but there's always the other hand to worry about. Why should I pay for a book when it's mainly a consolidation of materials that are already released. If I was starting out it would have been a great way to see what was out there. But for me personally I already have everything CSO. I don't need a book with the Ironman, Hammerer, MISU, Trundler, or Technician stats as I already have multiple cards for each of them. The other factions could be a resource in planning my strategy but Dark Tomorrow already gives me the majority of the units that will apparently be in them. Everything reprinted is less space for the things I expect and want in a faction book.

The short of it is that I'll buy the faction books just like everybody else. I have no doubt that whatever the content is they will be a solidly put together book with great fluff. Simon and Tony you have given us nothing if not that so far. But sadly they won't be on my “must buy” list as presented so far. I'll most likely pick up the CSO whenever it's released and then maybe pick up the other Factions at a con if nothing else grabs my attention.

Every year Chris and I try as many new demos as we can at Origins and Rezolution is the yard stick we stand them against. To date not a single one has measured up for the experience we want when it comes to actually playing on the table. Rezolutions is truly a one of a kind game. Simon and Tony it must drive you crazy to constantly be besieged with cries of “MORE” and “NEW” from all of the rez heads on this site and at conventions, but we clamor only for the thing you have produced and we love.

I know Aberrant is working hard to get all that they can out to us consumers. I know problems arise that we are never aware off. I know that it's easy for us to sit on the sidelines shouting suggestions and demands with out an understanding of a situation. Sadly we are still consumers and consumers are always a fickle bunch. For me personally I've bought everything I can possibly need or want from the current catalog at this point and I think a lot of other players out there are at the same place. Our group typically plays 500 points and I easily field over 2000 points in CSO. I can field enough Ronin to run a 750 game and very rarely ever run more than a Maven.

As frustrating as the constant questions about new product has to be, remember it's frustrating in it's own way to have disposable income that you want to spend on your favorite game when there's nothing to get. We know cool things are down the line for Rez we just all want the line to be shorter. Flying TACs that drop grenades and Enforcers on bikes have been in the eyes of APAC players since at least Origins 07 when Simon described them to us at the booth. I don't think anyone can blame them for being a little disgruntled.

I don't want this post to be taken as a complaint so much as an honest accounting of how one invested player feels about Faction books and the game in general.

I still remember asking Simon about that absolutely amazing picture of the Female Arashi in a dress raining lightning down on standard CSO troops (pg 84 Dark Tomorrow) 3 years ago and saying "You absolutely HAVE to put that on a poster".

Well, 3 years hasn't been so bad, so, promotional giveaway, Convention exclusive, limited edition run-on mail order - I don't mind the wait, the space reserved on my wall ain't going nowhere

-Ryoga